I talk a good game about how important it is to let kids feel disappointment, to experience failure. That’s how they learn important life lessons, how they grow stronger, how they develop skills to get along in a world that, come on, is not fair or, as kids would prefer it to be, “even.” In a New York Times Room for Debate feature the other day, I contributed an essay about this very subject. Life isn’t fair, kid.
On the lighter side, I refer you to a five-second scene from one of my favorite movies, The Princess Bride:
Still, it’s easier to talk about how your child needs to understand that he won’t get whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, than it is to watch your child feeling the very slings and arrows you’re convinced will help him grow.
Because in the moment, all the slings and arrows do is hurt.
Yesterday evening, my nine year old came to me while I was preparing dinner and asked, “I know what you’re going to say, Mom, but, um, do you think you could give me $5 or $10 for camp tomorrow?”
Yeah. He knew what I was going to say, which was no. No, because of a few things:
- No child needs what my son thought he needed to buy with that $5 or $10, which is something from the concession stand near the camp’s pool, like chicken wings or French fries, on top of what I pack him for lunch, and on top of the $1 or $2 he takes out of his own allowance for the vending machine now and then.
- The camp itself, in the rules sent home at the start of summer, expressly say, “no child is permitted to bring money to camp.” (A rule we found out is routinely disregarded). The concession stand and vending machine are meant to serve the rest of the general public who use the park and the pool, which are town-owned, so I guess that no matter what the written rules are, on the ground, it’s hard to keep a bunch of school-age kids with cash in their pockets from buying crap.
- I can’t afford $5 a day for him. Not this year. Not usually, in fact, but for sure not this year.
I explained all this, and not for the first time. And I know he gets it. I’m beginning to suspect he gets it a little too much, for a boy his age, especially the part where we can’t afford it. The principle part of the thing — that he doesn’t need French fries in the middle of the day; that treats are not daily privileges but, you know, treats; he understands that. He pushes against it, naturally, but he understands it. But should he have to understand the grinding, unpleasant fact that money is tight?
Normally I’d say yes, yes he should understand that. The kids want to go to Disney again this year, and I don’t think it’s wrong for their father and I to make it clear to them that Disney vacations are something we wait and save for, that they cost a lot, that we want to go, too, but we’ll have to find our fun closer to home this summer.
But here’s what happened next, when I pressed him for more information about what goes on at camp. “It’s just that I guess I feel jealous, mom.”
Knife, meet gut. Now, twist.
He’s envious of the kids who get the $5. Of course he is. It’s only human. I’m jealous, too. I’m jealous of other people’s vacations, other people’s kitchens, the fact that other people don’t have to constantly defer the things they want for the things they have to have. I even know that much of what I see that other people have is a credit-fueled illusion (not all of it, but some of it). But when you feel jealous, cool intellectual understanding of fantasy versus reality goes out the window.
I know what my stance is on teaching kids the value of what they have and the tough lessons about getting by in a world that (sometimes) seems to have more than they do. My mother tells a charming story about how, as an extremely picky eater when she was a girl, she’d hear the old admonition: “Eat this! There are children starving in India!” To which she’d (logically) reply, “Send it to India! I don’t want it!”
How deep does the lesson have to go? I mean, just how many sides of a story are kids capable of weighing? (I may not have the vacation or a backpack supplied with camp cash, but I do have a roof over my head! And the mortgage does get paid!).
When you want the $5 fries, it doesn’t matter that your stomach is full from a healthy breakfast. All you feel is the jealousy. And it hurts.
Oh boy, Denise, can I relate to this one!
And in honesty, sometimes I cave on little stuff like this, b/c I want my kids to feel “normal,” b/c I don’t want them to always feel deprivation. Sure, they’re not deprived in any real sense of the term: they have food, clothing, shelter, friends, fun, medical care. But every so often, I’ll buy the bag of chips I wouldn’t normally buy (due to cost and health concerns, just like you), just b/c it’s important to them.
Thanks, Jenny. Some of the gut-twisting is that “I just want him to feel like the other kids” notion. And I do, when they run out of allowance, spot them a dollar for the vending machine because I don’t want them to be the kid who’s ALWAYS eating the pretzels from home while their friends are buying Sour Patch Berries (their current favorite). There’s principle, and then there’s watching your kid feel bad.
And it’s worse because I feel the same way, substituting Sour Patch for, say, granite kitchen counters or a car that isn’t a piece of sh#t!
Denise
This is the story of my life! My daughter always prefaces her junk food / entertainment questions with “I think you’re going to say no but I was wondering…” I still want ice cream for dinner and would like to stay up too late watching movies but neither of those choices would be healthy for me, even now, as an adult. Kids want what they want when they want it (don’t we all?!) but don’t have the experience to think out the consequences. Doing right by our kids is terribly unfun but if we don’t do it who will? I always tell her that I hope we come back in our next lives into a world without cavities, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, debt, etc. Then, yes, ice cream will be an appropriate dinner while watching R rated movies at 11pm for eight year olds.
Denise….you always have the knack of put my thoughts into words for me. Thank you.
Denise, be proud that your son has enough emotional intelligence at 9 yrs old to be able to both identify and articulate that he is *jealous*. My stepson, at age 9, would NEVER have been able to identify that as the reason he wanted the fries. (He’s almost 13 now, and he’s still never articulated being jealous about anything without coaching from us.) Even though it hurts, take pride that you have raised such an emotionally aware son!
Thank you! I have to say that I was surprised that my son was able to articulate that feeling. It’s not an easy one to pinpoint. He happens to be a deeply emotional child, and his feelings usually far outpace his ability to articulate them, which is heartbreaking to watch. But which I hope will serve him well later in life! Appreciate your comment, so much!
Denise
Every once in a blue moon I give in so my kids won’t feel that jealousy, but a lot of times I remind them that just because those kids have money for XYZ, doesn’t mean their parents can afford XYZ! Or maybe the kid worked for that money or saved his allowance and that’s what he chose to spend it on. But, like I said, sometimes I just give in. My kids know that it’s MY perogative to give in once in awhile if I want to, though. I give in not because they wear me down, I give in because I feel like it, if that makes sense. I’m still the mean mom; I still have the upper hand.
We have neighbors up the street who buy their son name brand this and that all the time (we’re talkin Oakley sunglasses for a 9 year old…craziness) and the kid loves to flash around his stuff. We know for a fact that his parents are deep in debt because the dad told us! My kids used to talk about “Jack’s” stuff and how they wished they could have all that cool stuff. W/o specifically telling them Jack’s parents are in debt, I calmly explained to them that just because Jack has XYZ, doesn’t mean that his parents can afford it and that a lot of people buy stuff they can’t afford these days. I also tell them that there are kids who look at what we have as a family and wish they could do or have what we do AND that there are those who are happier with less than what we have!
I commiserate with your son! Sometimes I am jealous I can’t give our ladybug everything.. and then I remember I didn’t have *everything* as a child and I survived. Which is sometimes just enough to keep me from spending even $3 I don’t really have.. and hopefully we’ll teach her good habits and she’ll find a way to balance need with want
I love the way you put this into perspective. Like others here, I try to help my son understand that he can’t always have what he wants for a host of reasons depending on the situation, but then there are times when I indulge him, too. Finding the right balance is the tricky part.
In the end I want him to grow up with an appreciation for how hard someone had to work to put that food on the table or pay for his housing and clothes and entertainment. I know I don’t want my son to simply “expect” a certain lifestyle, nor do I want him to grow up worried or uncertain or afraid that his parents can’t take care of him.
I really know what you mean. Lately — since reading your book! — I’ve tried to be better about the “no’s” even though I’m already known as the strictest mom and we have small, family birthdays and (try to) refuse gifts, etc. etc. Okay – so even with that, I’ve tried to say “no” more. Like there was only a little milk yesterday and I wanted it for my coffee so I gave my 4 y/o a little but not as much as he usually gets. He was begging for more…and I said he’d have to wait until the afternoon when I go to the store. He ran into the room crying, “Nobody likes me!” – I felt awful! But stood firm. Not sure if he was intentionally trying to manipulate or genuinely felt hurt by my refusal. Either way it’s tough, but I think it helps to share our experiences — when we stand firm against our kids’ please, and how in the moment it can feel bad but we keep, like you write in your book, the “long view” in mind.
Also, I try not to connect it to a specific situation “Some kids don’t have any food” type thing, but I do often bring up the fact that some (many) kids don’t have enough and we collect money in little piggy banks along with toys/books etc. to send to these kids together. He also helps with picking out which charities to give to. Just generally being aware and trying to serve others — get some perspective — which is sometimes hard in our media-hollywood saturated world where it can appear most people have more (when the opposite is the case). I remember being startled myself to find out our household salary ($38,000) put us in the top 1% of the world.
Oh my gosh, this made MY stomach hurt! That is the worst, what an emotionally mature kid, and how much harder that makes it! He’s so aware, and like you said, the articulation isn’t always on par. But this time it was – ugh. Jealousy! Poor babe…Sweet boy – strong mom. Thank you for sharing. I’m having a similar pre-emptive problem with my daughter going into 4th grade, as I am not going to let her do the traditional California Mission Project (as it presents that period of Genocide as happy hand-holding times with savage Indians. Harf.) and though I’ve tried to prep my daughter for this, and I’ve explained that in our family we don’t celebrate slavery but we can do an equally fun model of say, a Miwok village – she is already sad that she has to be the only kid in class not doing the mission model, and I’ve got family members saying how cruel I am to make my daughter be the odd kid out simply because my husband and I have certain values we feel we need to uphold. I know she’s going to feel jealous and singled out, and I also know that experiencing how that feels and getting through it is better for her in the long run than caving and teacher her instead that running with the lemmings is more important than being a critical thinker, or even just understanding that our family has certain rules, unpopular as they may be. Not fun in the moment, and my husband says she’ll resent me, to which I say, “Of course she will. That’s my job. To be resented but do the right thing anyway.” Thank you for giving me the strength to keep on, though!
Jen – good for you!! Totally true about being taught to be a critical thinker and think for oneself.
I feel this way often about my son being a vegetarian. It was actually my husband’s idea to raise our son that way, although now I can’t imagine going back. Though it should probably be up to him (my son) at some point soon as to whether or not he wants to eat meat (he’s 4). When we explain what it is (that chicken on the plate is the same thing as a chicken running around a farm) his response is total shock. It is rather hard to swallow, no pun intended. But anyway, the point is, the other kids do, and he has to defend his position of not eating meat in school, and that does seem like a lot at a young age. But it’s also good to know he’s able to do his own thing, not go along with the crowd or peer pressure.
Rachel, that is awesome – we’re raising our daughter vegetarian, too! she gets crap for it ALL the time, which is so weird to me that more kids don’t know about it, it’s not so unusual, particularly in the Bay Area. But still, kids think it’s odd. Also, we adopted our daughter and the stuff kids say about THAT – yikes. She’ll be a strong adult from having to deal with that just by itself! I agree about it being great for kids to defend going their own way…I was being pressured to feel bad about the Mission Project thing and Vegetarianism both, as people say it is ME pushing MY views on my kid, to which I call total B.S. on: YES! These are the values we hold as a FAMILY, and many families raise kids to be certain religions form birth, no one says that’s shoving the parents views on the kid, do they? Yes, we are deciding for them because we are THE PARENTS and that is our job, and as they grow older they will gain their own views and also learn, in the meantime, how to deal with being the ‘odd kid out’, how to not swim with the swarm and still be okay, be stronger for it, whether it’s defending their own views or honoring their family credo, and figuring out who their true friends are, i.e., the ones who don’t make fun of them and who act like normal people! Denise, you are giving me such strength! Thank you too, Rachel, stay strong!
Denise, to answer your question: “But should he have to understand the grinding, unpleasant fact that money is tight?”: Absolutely. And, he’ll be better off for it.
He’ll grow up understanding the true value of money and how hard you work for it.
I go through this scenario with my son a lot. And I also stress to him that even if I could afford it, he still wouldn’t get it, for the principle fact that money should be something that’s respected and nurtured. We have what we have, or what we don’t have, because of our relationship with money.
And then I go through the long family history of my parents having to go to work at age 12 to help the family out, and my in-laws scrimping and saving and working round the clock to run their grocery store in the middle of nowhere California. Our success is built on the backs of those generations that came before us. It’s not something to be squandered (yes, I actually have this conversation with my 7-year-old.)
Let me also say that through my life I’ve seen how some people who have lots of money, treat it carelessly and end up with zilch. And I’ve seen some who have it still buy the used car, still make their kids work to pay for college and don’t just buy the best of everything just because they can. Their kids wind up far better adjusted, responsible, and productive citizens than those who get everything just for asking.
Having him understand that money is tight or money is something hard worked will make him appreciate it all the more when you do have it and, in theory, less likely to blow it on the ponies, so to speak.
Interesting conversation! Speaking of telling your kids what you think is right, even though you realize that there are times they’ll have to defend that position among their peers: This is part of what I’m talking about with this post. There are times my principles (not to mention my budget!) stand counter to what “everyone” is doing, and I can see times it gets under my kids’ skin. Just recently, I got a note home from school from the fourth grade class moms about the end of year party, asking parents to contribute “all the usual stuff the kids love!” which meant, of course, cupcakes, cookies, chips, fruit juice, candy… Now, I’ve made it clear to my kids that I don’t agree with this approach to a party. I have nothing whatsoever against parties, cookies, cupcakes, candy or snacks. In moderation. One at a time. Why, I tell them, can’t they ask for JUST cupcakes and something to drink? Why does it have to be a smorgasbord of crapola?
But this time, instead of just listening or even just rolling his eyes, my kid was like, “Mom! PLEASE don’t call them and say that!”
So. There’s that.
Denise
I agree with Rita’s point to tell kids about finances from a young age. I came to this conclusion when my kids were jealous of a family who seemed to get all sorts of fun stuff. I told them that people choose to spend their money on different things. I knew that they had paid for their pool by using money from the father’s retirement account and I explained to my children that we were not willing to dip into our retirement funds for anything like that. I believe that our way of handling our money is very logical so it felt easy to explain it to my kids. I am just innately a frugal person. I don’t think it made them worry, I think it did the opposite. I think that they were happy to know that we were paying attention and being careful because in the end I think kids can understand what is truly important – a roof over your head and food in your stomach.
For me, I usually take this time to tell my kids they (we, I) are supposed to feel (& BE) different – set apart. It has always been important for me to let my kids know that as Christians we are in this world and not of this world – and living the way we live (not in debt) is all part of that ‘feeling’ of being different.
Such a tough talk to have with your kid! Even when they are used to knowing about family budgets and boundaries. My kids are great and I wish I could do everything for them. But maybe the main reason they are so great is because we don’t. I wish I could send my small daughter to the gymnastics classes she asks for, but we spent the budget on an all-summer pass to the local pool for the whole family (which she loves). Like other posts, I share that we make choices on what we can spend.
They get $1 frozen yogurt day on Wednesday. They got to see two hit summer movies for the $6 deal. We are driving up to Lake Tahoe to stay with friends. It’s all fun stuff, but very budget conscious.
So when they get back to school in the fall, they’ll have some small adventures to share.
Still, it’s going to suck when their friends start taking about trips to Disneyland and Hawaii. Ouch!
My children are 2 and 4 so we haven’t gotten into this much, but my husband and I have discussed this. Both he and I were the oldest children of young parents who had to work very hard to make ends meet. Growing up we both felt that stress, a horrible stomach clenching worry, about money as it was clearly a stress to our parents. (Our parents had enough to have a place to live, a mostly reliable vehicle, and food without fail, but not much beyond that.)
With this in mind, we want to assure our own children about money and primary care. We want to avoid the “we can’t afford that” or other references to not enough money.
But that doesn’t mean we will say “yes” to the $5 fries (!). It will mean we say we choose not to spend our money on that for a variety of reasons, including that fact that that money may be going towards school clothes or gas money, etc. We really want our children to know that we work hard for our money, our first priority is to keep us fed, clothed, and housed, then we choose carefully how we spend the rest of the money. And that life isn’t fair and some people have more money, some people don’t choose to spend money wisely, etc.
Jen – That’s such a good point about how no one accuses people who raise their kids religious as “pushing” a religious on them, unlike vegetarianism or minimalism or being culturally aware like you with the mission project.
Denise – totally agree about “smorgasbord of crapola”. I’ve been to these parties lately – donuts, cupcakes, cookies, chips, cakes – such overkill that it all looks kinda unappealing (at least to me). Nothing seems special.
Denise, as always, a poignant, candid and timely post.
After reading the comments, I have to share a different perspective. As a child who grew up knowing exactly how little we had, and how much my single mother struggled, I did NOT learn great life lessons about the value of money. Instead, I developed tremendous anxiety about it that I carry with me today. And it didn’t stop me from making terrible mistakes with my own money as a young adult–getting into and out of debt in my early 20′s was the best lesson for me.
There are appropriate ways to discuss money and finances with children and I believe it’s important to remember that kids don’t just know what they are told, but what they observe quietly on their own.
I also don’t think that only parents who struggle financially can teach their kids the value of money and I think it’s terribly judgmental to assume otherwise. I feel grateful everyday for what we have but it isn’t lost on me that there are plenty of others who have less…and those who have much much more. Our children know our values and know how hard both of their parents work to provide them with what they have.
I make a point to remind my kids in a “yes” moment, that they should remember it during the next “no.” They get it, for the most part. But they are kids–and kids want what they want. Doesn’t mean they’re always gonna get it.
Emily,
Thanks for your comment. And you are right: it’s not how much disposable income a family has that sets the tone for how a child learns about money or comes to value (or show lack of value) for money and how it’s earned. I hope it didn’t come across that way in my post. I am trying to walk a fine line between helping my children understand that the reason they can’t have all they want is because, well, we can’t afford it — and transmitting the kind of anxiety you’re talking about having experienced as a child. I actually remember a time, in the 70s right after my brother was born, a really bad time when my father’s business had tanked for a while. I knew he had a tremendous amount of anxiety (I get it now!), and even ended up in the hospital with what at first looked like a heart attack, and turned out to be exhaustion and anxiety. Anyway, even with that, I STILL look back on all of my childhood, even back then, as carefree and happy, because somehow my parents managed the trick of letting us know that we had struggles, but that we were fine and would remain so. Also, my dad taught me (explicitly as well as by example) how to live within my means, which I thank him for whenever I can think of it.
I appreciate your perspective — and everyone else’s too! Great discussion.
Denise
As hard as it is on us parents, I absolutely agree that negative emotions and difficult experiences are crucial for our children’s development into beautiful adults.
My grandfather died suddenly at a relatively young age, leaving my father and his four siblings to grow up in a two-bedroom house with a single mother in the 1950s. Three children shared one bedroom, one slept on the sofa, and one slept in the same BED as my grandmother until the age of SIXTEEN. To say money was tight is an understatement, and there was PLENTY of jealousy of what others had that they did not. But not once throughout that experience did my grandmother allow her children to lose sight of Life goals and give up. Over and over again she drilled into their heads ‘You can want those new clothes/toys/whatever until you’re blue in the face, it’s not going to put money into the bank to pay for them. But never forget that you can have ANYTHING in the world you want, the same things that other people have….you just may need to work harder for it.’ I’m proud to say she raised five hard-working, successful, productive, loving, family-devoted, truly DECENT human beings. I can only hope to be a fraction as successful with my two children as she was with her five.
Thank you for providing a place where us ‘Mean Moms’ don’t have to feel evil and alone!
Even more gut wrenching is when you purposely DON’T send your kid to camp with money for junk… not because there’s no money but because they have a good lunch and they don’t need junk. Then they tell you their friends shared their money with them. So now I’m indebted to I don’t know who for I don’t know what and we didn’t want it in the first place.
We were at an outdoor concert last night and the snow cone guy is there (man, I wish he wasn’t). My son has never gotten a snow cone from him… because we bring water and juice and watermelon and we don’t NEED a $3 snow cone. I’m thinking maybe the last concert of the summer we can get one. His friend got a snow cone (his parents’ decision, no problem). And then the rest of the night I got the pouty stink-eye. I almost had a moment of weakness, but at the same time I knew it was crucially important to stick to my guns.
Of course my son has no concept of money (6 yo). I’m thinking this is about the time to start a (very) small allowance. That way if he wants it he can buy it. But he doesn’t like pants with pockets… hm.
So glad to read this post and all of the commentary on it! I have not had to deal with this issue with my own son yet, since he is just about to turn 2. We will be dealing with it soon enough, though. My husband and I have extremely tight finances right now. I am in nursing school, and he is a massage therapist and having a hard time finding enough work. I actually just got off the phone with Health and Human Services, we are eligible for food stamps for the next 6 months!
When my older brother and I were small, my father was in medical school and we had very little money. My parents did their best to shelter us from that fact, especially my mother, and I was mostly too young to understand it. What I remember most about that time is how stressed my parents were. My older brother, though, was able to comprehend something about the source of that stress. He knew that money was important, and that the lack of it could cause emotional pain. By the time I got older and my two younger siblings came along, the family’s financial circumstances had improved. My younger siblings got used to having housekeepers helping to clean, and to being able to take family vacations around the world.
As adults, I think it has taken the three younger children a lot longer to come to a proper understanding and respect for money. I ran up a huge debt before I realized how much pain I was setting myself and others up for. My sister is still regretting going to such an expensive college and making that demand upon my father’s finances. My little brother has just moved in with his fiance and is struggling to make ends meet while finishing school. Meanwhile, my older brother, who was so aware of the financial stress of his childhood, graduated college 10 years ago with a computer science degree. He and his wife have been working for Microsoft ever since, living in a small house, and driving one car! They have saved a bunch of money, and their first child is due next week.
Looking back, I think my parents might have done well by denying a few more of our frivolous desires, even once they were able to afford such things. My parents are both struggling financially now, and have no savings, and three of their children have had to learn some hard lessons about the value of money.
Learning these things is never easy. Perhaps it’s better to suffer some jealousy over missed french fries than to have to struggle through the much bigger financial problems that adults who mismanage their money have to face.
Bravo to you, Denise. You are teaching him some good lessons. And forgetting money and health concerns for a minute, it is important for him to learn that RULES ARE RULES and that POLICIES ARE TO BE ADHERED TO. The camp has a policy, which is to say, a rule. No camper can bring money for junk food. The junk food is for people who come to the park from off the street. That’s the rule. For this reason alone, I agree with the way you’re handling the whole thing.
@RedinNC – good for you for enduring the stink-eye. Remember: the long-delayed, much anticipated snow cone at the end of the summer will be that much sweeter!!
At church a few weeks ago the priest gave a homily about jealousy. He defined envy as feeling sadness about someone else’s joy. He went on to say that when you feel envious you need to look at yourself, at what you’re doing in your life. Are you willing to do what it would take to have what that other person has?
I have really gone to town with this with my daughter (age 8). Now whenever my daughter brings up something in the jealousy category I respond with something along the lines of, “Wow, that’s great for them.” I think she’s already a little tired of it, but so be it. It’s a great message and I’m ready to wear it out.
This post brings up some great questions. My husband grew up with a single mom and spent a lot of time alone because she often worked all day and at evening jobs as well. He is very sensitive to what we say about money in front of our daughter (age 10) while I am more casual and will express minor annoyance or frustration about what we don’t have in front of her, he would rather she never have to worry about it. Like everything, there is a happy medium somewhere…we will stumble around until we find it!
I relate to this one from the child’s standpoint. I knew we didn’t have money growing up. So, I didn’t ask. And that meant that science fair projects didn’t get done.. because the materials cost money. Not my parent’s fault, I’m sure that they would have been able to scrounge up the money for a school project. But I didn’t ask.
It was my defeated attitude that I don’t want for my kid. Now, I’m good with money, but I’m also not. I was fine on my own, living on a budget, knowing the worth of every dollar. But with my daughter, I splurge too much.
Maybe a good thing to do would be to buy some potatoes and make home fries with him.
they’re better anyways. Maybe even invite a friend over to help him eat it.
The alternative being that’s it’s not about the money, but about the experience. I’m glad he was so honest with you about his feelings. That shows a good relationship.
So you give your son an allowance and then delegate where and what he can spend it on ? I am concerned that he is not learning to make a few decisions on his own at the age of 9. I am not sure he will grasp the lesson you are teaching him, time will tell. Also, I would have compromised and gave him $5.00 a week for the French fries. Yes, they are expensive but in the grand scheme of things he sees this as being important to him.