Mean Mom Question Time: What’s Bedtime Like at Your House?
Sweet dreams: James, at about 5, before my re-tucking efforts.
I don’t think it’s a huge leap to say that sleep — from your newborn’s earliest days to your teen’s freakish ability to sleep for what seems like days — is a major parenting issue. Can I get an amen on that? Amen. Thanks.
I’ve always been … let’s call it “a stickler” or “tough” or, oh, I don’t know, mean, when it comes to my boys and their sleep. Getting them to settle down and sleep, stop crying and sleep, eat and then sleep: it was my whole world when they were babies, as it is for most parents of infants. It informed everything, not least how I handled feeding. I breastfed, but I quickly figured out that my boys (particularly Daniel, the firstborn) just did better on the sleep thing if they had a nice, full, two-boob meal. No “snacking.” I had a few days early on where I got off track and Daniel got off track with me that led to five-minute nursing sessions followed by catnaps and more crying (from us both). Throw tomatoes at me if you like, but for me — for us, really — on-demand feeding didn’t make things happier, sweeter or smoother. Quite the opposite. But when Daniel fed for 20 minutes, he emptied me out and filled himself up and then (after much burping and gurgling and some crying), slept, and usually slept well.
That was my first sleep revelation.
The next one came when D was about 12 weeks old and I went back to work. Maggie, our nanny, was whispering on the phone with me one day during her first week (for the record, that first week was the only time I called her randomly to “check in.” After that, it worked best when she had her day with D and I got my day done at the office so I could leave work behind and get home). “Why are you whispering? Is he asleep?” He was, she said — and he was in his crib.
This was huge. By that time, D was pretty much sleeping through the night (11pm to 7am, thank you very much, and within another couple of weeks after I started back to work, he dropped his late feeding and went down at 9, in a series my husband called the Three B’s: bath, boob, bed.). But his naps hadn’t quite gelled yet, and all I’d managed was getting him to sleep in the stroller during our marathon daily walks when I was home on leave.
“How did you get him to sleep in the crib?” I whispered to Maggie, incredulous. Her reply? “He seemed sleepy, so I put him down.”
He seemed sleepy. So she put him down. Wow.
And that was revelation number two.
So. Both boys (and both parents!) have always done best when sleep is regular, adequate, and predictable. As they’ve gotten older, they’ve gotten good at staying up late (I am not, it has to be said quite strongly here, one of those moms who, post-infancy, has to have her children in bed on the dot of a certain time in the fear that all hell will break loose if she does not. I’m mean, but I’m not crazy; that works when they’re babies, not when they’re 6 and 8 and want to stay up later on weekends or vacations, or have the major treat of watching the Times Square ball drop on New Year’s Eve). They’ve even gotten okay-ish at not waking up super-early on days they don’t have to.
But here’s what happened recently, and what’s become revelation number three: I don’t put my kids to bed anymore. What?! How did that happen? I didn’t plan this, I swear to you. It just… happened. Our nighttime routine has evolved to happen mostly downstairs. Ever since summer, they shower rather than bathe (baths are for babies, don’t you know). The shower they can use easily happens to be on in the ground-floor bathroom. (James still needs help; Daniel is big on being a Man and showering alone, then wrapping a towel around his waist. Like a Man). So they shower and get into PJs downstairs, then run up to brush their teeth and get their books. We all read together on the couch, and then up they go, with a little swat on their pajama’d butts (and sometimes even a kiss, which I get when I ask from Daniel, but only when I steal them from James).
I guess it started precisely because we got less stickler-ish about strict bedtimes. We just make sure they more or less get upstairs, on school nights, at 8pm. They can play for 20 minutes or so, and then we yell up to them to get into their beds (there’s a lot of yelling either up or down the stairs at our house; what would I do if I lived in a ranch-style house? hmmmm….). James is generally asleep within minutes after that, and Daniel has the privilege of staying up, puttering quietly in his room, until closer to 9 (he leaves for school an hour later than his little brother).
But while one of us used to go up and supervise their getting into bed, tucking in and plugging in nightlights and closing curtains, we don’t anymore. No decision was made. We just … stopped. We’re tired. Oh, I still do my tucking and plugging and curtain-drawing (and lavish kissing; bless them, but they do not move an inch when I do, or when I wrestle them out of their twisted blanket cocoons to cover them properly). I just do it later, before I hit the sheets myself. (I also, in Daniel’s room, do a lot of picking up of Highlights magazines strewn on the bed and floor, and wonder why he feels it necessary to empty his change bank and re-sort his collection of who-knows-what in his “stuff” box every night).
I’m still not sure how I feel about this turn of events, even though it didn’t so much turn as sort of gradually evolve. Just this morning, thinking about this, I recalled that I was probably Daniel’s age when my parents sort-of stopped tucking us in (and my mom was a tucker in her day. Literally tucking, like can’t move tucking; like swaddling for schoolage kids tucking). Like my husband and me now? They were tired. I have a picture of them in my head, clear as if it was yesterday, of them in our total-70s den, heads lolling on the back of the couch, trying to fob off the chore on one another, saying, “you go tuck them in.” “I did it last night.” “Can’t you girls tuck yourselves in?”
But you know? Thinking about it now? That didn’t bother me. I felt like maybe I was on the cusp between wanting my mommy and daddy to do everything for me, and maybe, scarily, realizing I didn’t quite need them to (I was about Daniel’s age, actually, when I started making my own lunches for school).
I happen to believe that my boys like having their time alone upstairs to get up to whatever it is they get up to, then “tucking” themselves in when they get the call-up-the-stairs that it’s time.
But I do have to say, at the peril of my mean mom rep, I miss bath-boob-bed.
So. What’s bedtime like at your house?
March 2, 2011 @ 5:09 pm
Mean Dad says:
I think you’re right on. For our older kid, V, now 2, we wound up Accidentally Cosleeping (read: inertia always wins) until about four months. Then we did sleep training right out of SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT by Jodi Mindell. Since I’m in training to be a cognitive-behavioral psychologist, this basically amounted to eating my own dogfood. It remains the hardest thing I’ve ever done — but easily one of the most worthwhile. V sleeps beautifully and has only had a few periods of difficult bedtimes since then. Our younger kid, H, is only six weeks, but that’s where SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT recommends you get started.
Now — sleep training via an extinction method is really, really tough to do, and it’s emotionally wrenching, so I totally get why a lot of parents won’t do it. And it’s also hard to do right, in the sense of paying attention to what your kid thinks is a reward, and then not providing that when they won’t go to sleep. So, again, I get why a lot of people say it doesn’t work. But it did work for V, and it really ought to work for most people, because most people really do respond to operant conditioning PROPERLY CONCEIVED AND CONSISTENTLY APPLIED.
However, the attachment-parenting people will always be happy to shout a big You’re Doing It Wrong at you for training your kid to sleep. They’re wrong, of course: you won’t screw up your kid’s attachment by having him or her sleep in his or her own bed. In fact, the kid-psychs in my department routinely comment on how healthily attached V is to her parents. I don’t think the attachment-parenting folks are screwing up their kids either, but I suspect they are really shorting themselves on sleep and possibly doing their mood, coping skills, etc., a little damage depending on the individual case.
Let the flame wars begin.
March 2, 2011 @ 10:42 pm
Having twins as my first kids, I was very strict with their bed time when they were babies. For me, I couldn’t “shut off” and relax until they were in bed. I think that helped us develop a good sleep routine that has stuck around. (Now if only they weren’t picky eaters! sigh…) This year things have changed, however. They’re teens and want to stay up later then I do. I go to bed first and remind them to shut off the lights when they turn in! It’s weird.
March 3, 2011 @ 1:28 pm
Interesting post! I think I’m definitely not ready to skip our bedtime routine – despite the fact that I am often exhausted in the evenings. My oldest son is 7 and the twins are 5. After dinner they brush their teeth (under my husband’s supervision, of course); I get the twins ready. Then the twins choose two books which I then read to them, while my husbands reads a more grown-up book to their brother. Then I sing to them, my husband comes, tucks them in and sings a couple of more songs to them. Then they usually fall asleep, while my oldest son reads a chapter or two from one of his books to me, we talk about the high- and lowlights of the day, cuddle and then I tuck him in. That’s it. All three of them sleep in the same room – they seem to prefer it that way. Our routine starts at about 18.30 and I’m usually finished with our oldest at quarter past 7. Early, I know, but school starts at 8 here in Austria – so we have to get up really early. Bee
March 3, 2011 @ 6:42 pm
My kids are a lot older, as you know, but I am sure that because I was so strict about sleep when they were babies, they are fabulous sleepers now. The high schooler obviously doesn’t get tucked in, but when he feels tired (shocking!)– he goes to sleep! The fifth-grader still likes me to spend time with her before she goes to sleep and I like that too-sometimes we read together or sometimes we chat softly before I say goodnight. Other times she goes to bed on her own with a quick goodnight downstairs. Sometimes she needs a little more wind-down time. But both of my kids like to sleep. Really like to sleep. From what I hear, that’s not so true in many other households, so I am grateful for that.
March 3, 2011 @ 11:23 pm
We DO have one of those houses with no stairs, so I’ve been reading about your kids’ “upstairsness” with something like eager curiosity. I do tuck both kids into bed, which probably evolved because we have a very real need to go into the 8-year-old’s room to physically remove the book from her hands and shut her light off. If we didn’t, she’d be up reading for hours. And then I tuck the six-year-old in and hug him because he’s a love, and he’s my last, and I’ll take all the hugs he’s willing to give me. That’s not to say the tucking in isn’t a chore some nights that we try to pass off onto one another. But mostly, I like it.
March 5, 2011 @ 9:56 am
My son has always loved to sleep. He was a great sleeper as a baby, but hit a snag at about 2 where we endured nearly 18months of night waking and crying and I really thought I would literally die from exhaustion. BUT, that ended almost as it started, abruptly, one night he just slept through again and that was that. Now that he’s 8, he’s angling for a “later” bedtime, which I find funny because we don’t insist on a specific time for him. He loves to sleep, so even with the “later” bedtime, he still asks me to tuck him in by 8:00 most nights. And yes, I walk up with him, turn on his white noise machine, give him a kiss and close the door behind me. I love that it really is that simple for him and that when his head hits the pillow, he’s ready and happy to drift off. I should add we are a house of early risers. My son is up and ready to start his day by 6am. Always. And it’s been like that from the get-go, which is really fine since his mom and dad are much the same.
March 10, 2011 @ 9:10 pm
School nights in our house stories start at 8 and you’re tucked in by 8:30. Period. On weekends though, we do not enforce a specific bedtime. The kids can sleep where they fall. However they are expected to make themselves scarce at the stroke of 8. If it’s past 8 DO NOT come bothering me for batteries or beg me to see yet another of your Lego creations. And for Christ’s sake, if our bedroom door is locked that’s a sure indication that your [insert millionth random craft project here] will just have to wait until morning. Grown ups need grown up time.
At 4 and 6 years old, my kids are capable of and should be dressing themselves, brushing their teeth, and going to bed themselves. I was doing it at their ages. I could also swim, tie my shoes (no velcro then) and ride a big girl bike by the time I was 4. Neither of my kids can do any of those things without assistance. Hmm. I’m slacking big time.
March 10, 2011 @ 10:49 pm
Well, Danno, thanks for weighing in, because you are a mom after my own heart! Sneak preview of a similar topic in my upcoming book: I talk about how, at the end of the evening, I’m DONE, like a nice roast. It’s quittin’ time, it’s mommy time (or,okay, mommy and daddy time). No guilt; I need it. And nothing bad for them; I think that time for their own whatevers upstairs is great for them.
Keep reading,
Denise
March 13, 2011 @ 1:18 pm
What an interesting discussion – once more. I suppose that what you consider right, i.e. appropriate, for children to be able to do etc. at a certain age very much depends on what you yourself experienced as a child. So my opinion as to how family life should look like is strongly linked to my own childhood. Like my parents, I’m very strict about family time – insisting as I do on sit-down breakfasts, family walks and dinners, night-time rituals, etc., etc. I guess that with a billion books on how to raise your child out on the market and 1000 options with every decision, one’s own childhood – provided it was happy and healthy – provides a much easier and straight-forward orientation point. Even if 1001 books on child-raising advised me against it (which they don’t), my husband and I would still insist on kissing, singing and reading to our children + tucking them in at night – for the very simple reason that it was done to us at least some 4000 times in our early days…
Our night-time rituals rather enforce this golden rule than undermine it.
Otherwise I totally agree of course. Our children know perfectly well that only a major crisis (a spaceship landing on our roof, a fire breaking out, etc.) could justify their appearance in the living room after bedtime.
Bee
April 19, 2011 @ 9:24 am
I know this is late, but I just glanced at the first comment and wanted to thank Luis for such an insightful post. I guess I am an attachment-parenting kind of gal…though not through any intention. My daughter was born premature and initially had spells of sleep apnea, so she slept on my chest. Because she was early, we hadn’t gotten a crib yet…and we just never did. She’s my first child. I’ve really done the best I can, and she’s really close to me. My husband enjoyed having her sleep with us, but he’s been stationed out of state for several months now. She’s 2 years, 4 months, and I have no incentive to kick her out of my bed with my husband being gone, but I yearn — no, I cry for better sleep habits. I appreciate Luis saying how hard it is to sleep-train, and I know this is why I haven’t been successful yet. And he’s right. I feel completely short-changed in the area of sleep and coping skills sometimes. But I really appreciate Luis saying that attachment-parenting folks probably aren’t messing up their kids. I reached out to another more experienced mom friend the other day looking for practical advice on how to make this situation better, and was berated for letting my child sleep with me, even saying that if I didn’t take care of it now, she would never have good sleep habits even into college. Kind of put me in a teeny funk. Anyway, Luis’s post cheered me up. I’m glad to see there are parents out there who have respect and appreciation for other parents who do things differently. Thanks, Luis! That said, I am going to check out that book because I am tired!
April 19, 2011 @ 9:38 am
Angela,
thank you for your post! I do believe that, while plenty of parents have defined ideas going into it (I will do attachment; I will have a schedule), many just wing it and then try to work out what feels right as they go along. Continue doing what feels right, I’d say — but if you’re feeling short-changed and want to shift things, know that you can. It may be tough, but it’s always doable. I’m happy you came here, and hope you keep reading!
Denise
June 13, 2011 @ 10:33 pm
Angela,
I was a single mom w/ my 1st child and he slept with me until he was about 6mo old. It worked for us as I was SO tired and had no night time help. Being able to roll over and lift my shirt to feed him just made life easier. By 6 mo. though, he was a wiggler! I used the techniques from a book called…oh, I forgot (he is almost 16) But after a short, simple bedtime routine of nursing, without letting him fall asleep, a kiss and a snuggle, I would lay him in his crib and leave the room. He would cry. After 5 min. I would go in enough to reassure him I was still there and leave the room. Then wait 10 min, then 15, 15,15…till he fell asleep. After a few nights, I would wait longer (10, 15, 20,20…..) I cried as hard as he did! but it didn’t take more than about a week and a half until he could fall asleep on his own! But you can’t break down and give in to picking them up or you are starting all over! We got so much more sleep because he learned how to fall asleep on his own in the middle of the night too. If he woke up crying, I would wait a few minutes and he would usually settle on his own.
We then had morning cuddle sessions that were much more enjoyable because we got sleep!
Now with all of the kids they go to bed at 7:30, 8 and 10 (8 yo, 10 yo and 16 yo) the younger 2 have a 1/2 hour on their own to read, draw ect then lights out -NO coming back out! The oldest is a night owl, but he is downstairs in his room at 10. You can’t force someone to sleep so the deal for him is do something quiet till you are ready, but no coming back up! I hear him playing his guitar quite often and I know that relaxes him.