Questions and answers. Who doesn’t love ‘em? Just the other day, when the four of us were driving home from a family event, our boys slipped into fierce, rapid-fire question mode. My husband found it exhausting (though certainly better than breaking up fights!), but I like it, even when it’s tiring: I like answering their questions. Or anyone’s questions, really. (Speaking of which, if you have a moment, read this Q&A I did with my friend Meagan Francis on her wonderful blog, The Happiest Mom. I love that we can find the large overlap between Happy Mom and Mean Mom).
I bring up the Q&A format because, as I promised, I am going to answer a couple of questions posed by readers back in this post. Feel free to agree, disagree, add your own advice, and of course, ask more questions! Here we go:
Dear Mean Mom,
I have issues with stubbornness in all three of my children. It’s a daily battle to get them to clean up toys or follow the minimal rules (don’t climb over gates, don’t hit, don’t climb and get things down from shelves.) I’ve tried special coins and then getting to buy something from a special trinket box at the end of the week with the coins, worked for a week, then the next two weeks were hell. Then we tried regular money and that again worked for a week. Am I just expecting too much for them not to get bored with a new system and then try to battle it? They also have short attention spans and want to spend hours with handheld games (which because of that they get taken away for days at a time). Long winded… so, do I just hover and scream until they do as they are told? Or do I give up? Because there isn’t anything left to take away for punishment!
Have you met my two boys? I engage in daily multiple battles on many fronts — clear away your plates, don’t use your sleeve as a napkin, have you met my friend Mr. Fork? Because no, string beans don’t fall into the same “finger food” category as sandwiches (an actual heated discussion with my 7-year-old last week. His argument: “Everybody knows you can eat green beans with your fingers!”). The problem isn’t, I don’t think, stubbornness, at least I don’t believe that’s at the root of it. The problem is that they are children, and children want to do the least amount of what they consider “work” and the maximum amount of unfettered play. They don’t want to know from rules and limits and boundaries.
The other problem is that it’s easier and much more tempting to let them be that way; to allow even the “minimal” rules you speak of slide. I’d take a dual approach here. First, dogged consistency. Don’t climb over the gates. We don’t hit. Please stop climbing the shelves. Over and over and over and over. And then over again. But try your best to do it without much emotion. Dead, dead calm, but consistent. Me, I refuse to give up on some baseline table manners even though at times it seems completely hopeless, because I’m convinced something will click sometime, such as when they get interested in girls, and then they’ll have something to remember (such as napkins, and forks). Second, don’t emphasize the negative over the positive. Standing there yelling over them doesn’t work, and I can say because I do sometimes resort to yelling, and I know it doesn’t work. Even while I’m yelling, I realize how spectacularly it’s not working. Praise them, but not in an obviously over the top way, for the times they did a good job. “Good for you guys playing so nicely together. Makes mommy so happy!”
I don’t know if others will disagree, but a rewards system (stickers, trinkets, charts) have never worked all that well for us, which could very well be because I’ve never been convinced they work, so the times I’ve attempted to institute a system like that I’ve done so in a half-baked way. I think I still have a piece of oaktag and a packet of sticker stars somewhere I’ve never used. Behavioral experts have told me that rewards are not the best idea anyway, because they set up external motivations for the kid, not internal ones (be good to get a sticker or a toy, rather than be good because it feels good inside). I think they can work, on behavioral issues in particular, but maybe your kids aren’t into the trinkets. Maybe it’s the promise of a special outing. But my advice would be to keep it all veeerrry low key. Here’s the deal, kids: stick to the rules all week, and we can go to the ice cream place after dinner on Friday. Then just give them one or two warnings, and that’s that. If they are not up to snuff, they don’t go. Then the key would be to not cave. Even if you wanted the ice cream, too.
And I’d nix the handheld games for a good long while. But that could just be me.
Dear Mean Mom,
How do you balance not being a helicopter parent with keeping kids safe? With the constant stream of news stories of kids being abducted or molested, rampant bullying with dire results, and other unimaginable horrors, how do you let go enough of your kids to allow them to grow and learn without leaving them dangerously unprotected?
Yes, well, we’re all worried, aren’t we? But here’s the thing: we shouldn’t be, not to such an amped-up degree that it leads us to keeping our kids hyper sheltered, beating those helicopter blades over their heads. It’s not healthy for anyone, and I’d argue (and I’m not the only one!) that it’s unnecessary. You mention the constant stream of news stories. Think about those news stories for a minute. Is it the same story being flogged over and over on the news shows and cable channels? They have a lot of time to fill, too much in my opinion, and those stories, unfortunately, are lurid enough to keep viewers from changing the channel. But it’s false. Nancy Grace may tell you that your kids are in grave danger, but I’d rather listen to statistics, which tell me that my children are far safer than I likely was.
Helicoptering is a bad, bad trap, because (a) it doesn’t work – you can’t protect your child from everything, no matter how hard you try; and (b) it leaves your kids stunted, unable to make decisions on their own. You can and should grasp a toddler’s hand to cross a street. A 6 year old should have already learned how to look both ways. When you consistently overprotect, you are looking at your children as immensely and incurably fragile. I prefer to presume my children are smart and strong and capable, which will go a long way toward keeping them safe.
The world is a scary place, and it’s often dangerous. But it always has been. And parents’ jobs have always been to protect their children, but also to teach, and model, good common sense and good habits and smarts. Helicoptering does not do that; it just seeks to encircle kids in bubble wrap. It’s like we dropped the teaching part, and doubled down on the protecting part.
My suggestion, since I can’t say all this as well as she can, is to go to my friend Lenore Skenazy’s blog, Free Range Kids. She’s far smarter than I am on this score, and reading a few back posts might help you enormously.
Anyone else got a question? Or a comment on my answers here? Keep it coming, and you all get ice cream this Friday!
Thank you for having such an open, honest and realistic approach to life with children! As a teacher, I appreciate so much that there are parents like you sharing wonderful and helpful ideas about parenting. When my children (often) say “it’s not fair or why not?” I love to tell them “because I’m a mean mom!”
I’m a psychologist-in-training at a very, very behaviorally-oriented clinic, so I can’t resist a couple of quickie comments.
1. “Rewards don’t work” is the second most common complaint I hear. (The most common is “Time-out doesn’t work”. Both are pretty much always wrong.) The usual reason a reward system doesn’t work is because the reward is not really meaningful to the kid. Often enough it USED to be meaningful but after a few iterations it “lost its magic.” A good reward system usually involves switching up the rewards every so often so they don’t get stale. (Analogy: I might be able to get you to do me a favor by offering you ice cream as a reward. But about three ice creams later, you’re gonna be pretty much done with ice cream!)
On the other hand, if you find something the kid really wants, you can really shape up their behavior. (We very often just ask parents to make access to things kids normally take for granted, like video games, TV, tae kwon do class, etc., contingent on doing things the parents want. And this often works really, really well! “Pay me first, then I’ll pay you” is the general idea here.)
The other major reason a reward system doesn’t work is that the parent is not applying it every time the desired behavior happens. (And this may have been what was going on in your situation, from what you say.) As parents, we tend to attend to rule violations and ignore rule-following behavior. That’s normal: that’s how the human brain works! But in behavior-modification terms, it’s exactly backward! Catching kids doing what we want them to do is a skill that requires practice.
2. Anyone who trots out that line about external vs. internal motivations isn’t a behavioral expert, or, at least, not an expert who follows a behavioral model. I get this a lot, usually in the form of “Well, I just EXPECT him to do his homework!” Okay then, expect in one hand … you know the rest. But if what you WANT is for the kid to do his homework, then applying some external motivation will get it done. And, eventually, the external motivation becomes internal. We are used to thinking that a psychological intervention takes something that is internal and invisible and brings it out, thus shaping visible behavior. The behavioral model posits that you can handle things in the other direction too: change the behavior and eventually the external becomes internal: attitudes and beliefs change as well. Fifty or sixty years of research has shown that humans really do work that way, whether or not we like to think of ourselves as able to be shaped like that.
I’d note, by the way, that as adults we usually do work for money, not just for internal motivation. Why expect our kids to be better than we are?
Love the blog — this piece just hit a couple of sore spots that I deal with on a daily basis, so I delurked.
Luis, THANK you for this long and well-considered comment. I love the ice cream analogy. You’ve give me much to think about and I’m so grateful you emerged from the Land of the Lurk.
Denise
How very kind of you to say that. I’ve been an avid reader for some time — can’t recall how long, but probably about two years? Either my wife turned me on to it, or else I found you via Lenore Skenazy after her story went, well, it happened before we said “went viral,” but you know what I mean. Your blog has been very encouraging as I continue to learn how to be a parent myself.
My 21 yo daughters & I just had a conversation in the car about them (always) asking questions, and me answering…to sum up: they both thought that because I explained reasons, rules & why to them so often & clearly ‘kept at it’, they understood my requests, reasons, why we believed ‘whatever’ topic was currently being questioned. AND they both named several friends who never seemed to be able to stay out of trouble/obey the rules/live up to parental expectations BECAUSE the other parents didn’t or couldn’t explain to the kids (or answer their questions) “WHY…”
We rarely did the rewards system, and then only for something very specific (a late potty-trainer, a summer reading program that I set up since we lived overseas far from any library). Because of that, it worked really well for us.
I would just add my voice to your call for consistency presented with calmness. That worked best for us. Over and over and over again, I would tell them the same thing, until I wanted to scream–but didn’t. And eventually, it worked. Hang in there!
Miss Manners says that you can eat vegetables with your fingers as long as there is no dressing on them. So naked green beans, naked asparagus… all finger food in our house.
Am a huge fan of your book and Lenore Skenazy, by the way. Reading your book I kept reading passages aloud to my husband. He kept saying, You could have written that book! I didn’t know how to articulate it though… Now I know I’m a mean mom! I thought I was the only one. I certainly don’t know any locally.
Lynn, thanks! What a huge compliment. And that’s hilarious that Miss Manners would have given my son the okay to eat his green beans with his fingers! I’ll keep that our little secret, though.
Denise
Hi Denise,
I’m a friend of Meagan Francis and I am so happy I found you and your new book! I remember her saying that you were one of her favorite writers — which is a huge compliment — but I hadn’t realized we were so much on the same page with parenting.
I never thought of myself as mean until my 4th grader started calling me that — because I don’t buy her whatever clothes she wants, I won’t give her a digital device, and I make her do chores (to name a few).
I love your courage — your taking a stand as a mean mom makes me feel like maybe I am doing the right thing (even though I am supposedly the “meanest” mom in the class).
So, thank you, Denise — I hope your book is super successful!
Amy
Thank you for writing “I’d rather listen to statistics, which tell me that my children are far safer than I likely was.” I have never believe that the world is now a more dangerous place. I believe it is safer and we are overly paranoid but I generally keep this to myself since people look at me like I am crazy when I let it slip out. I wonder how our children will fair being afraid of their shadow.
Hey Denise,
I love that you are doing “Ask the Mean Mom.” This time you reinforced one idea for me–consistency–and reminded me to keep at it with a calm demeanor. Lord, I am in a postpartum self-hate spiral! I’m not depressed, but my hormones are still all whack after having my second baby 9 months ago. I find myself feeling like I fail with my 3 year old more than I succeed because I get so exasperated and yell way too much when I have to repeat the same things eleventy million times a day.
Anyway, you and Lenore Skenazy are my celeb mom idols and Jen at People I Want to Punch in the Throat helps me deal vicariously with my anger and aggression. Thanks for the sage advice!
(I’m off to buy the ebook, which I’ve said before and then promptly forgotten to do. This time it’s for realz.)
Caroline
Caroline, thanks. I know you’re feeling hormonal and scattered and angry/upset, but is it wrong that your comment made me laugh? I’ll have to checkout this People I Want to Punch in the Throat blog, because I confess that’s an impulse I have frequently. I can remember having a toddler and a baby — plus a freelance career — at the same time, and it doesn’t make you feel like being calm and collected. Go easy on yourself; you’re not alone.
If you do buy and read the book, lemme know what you think!
Denise
Just wondering how you deal with punishment for not following the rules? I don’t recall this being mentioned in your book and I’m interested to hear how you have dealt with it from toddler age until now.
thanks for your question,Cheryl! I actually look forward to hearing,from readers,what they didn’t get from the book so I can fill in the gaps (and maybe get an idea for another book!). Anyway, I think the most important aspect of rules is setting them from the beginning,and being consistent about making them clear (for example, if it’s “no TV until homework is done” or “clothes picked up off the floor every day,” and those are clear and consistent,then the “punishment” can also be straightforward, because hopefully the kid is quite clear on what was not right about his actions. It depends on your child’s age,but my boys are 7 and 9, and when they do not follow rules or they misbehave, we usually take something away that they’re currently really into — which right now is Club Penguin on the computer. My younger son did something CLEARLY wrong the other day, and I banished him from the computer for the next day. It fit, and he understood.
Toddlers are tougher; any consequence has to be swift, impactful, and somehow related to the “crime”. I have a 2year old nephew who loves to play with his toy hockey stick, and my brother and SIL have made it clear that he needs to use it responsibly — not swing it wildly, whatever. And if he does, it gets taken away, right then, for two minutes.
Good luck!
Denise